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Main
Date: 30 Nov 2006 12:13:46
From: Richard
Subject: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades, but am
having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up well and
the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the new
joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few secconds of
cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any suggestions. I am
using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
Thanks,
Richard
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Date: 30 Nov 2006 22:41:55
From: Richard
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
This explains not only why the blades are not holding together, but
also why they taste so darned good :)
J T wrote:
> Thu, Nov 30, 2006, 12:13pm (EST-3) rtgreen8972@msn.com (Richard) doth
> lament:
> I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades, but am
> having some trouble getting a good joint.<snip>
>
> Apparently you're using the wrong recipe.
>
> From WordNet (r) 2.0 (wn)
> braising n : cooking slowly in fat in a closed pot with little moisture
>
>
>
> JOAT
> I am, therefore I think.
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 02:30:05
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:26:42 +0000, zap wrote:
> Hi J. Clarke,
>
> Thanks for the spelling lesson. I needed that, since I never finished
> grade school, they wouldn't let me past the 3rd grade so I quit when I
> turned 16. And They didn't teach the difference between those two words
> when I was in school 60 some years ago, then again I just may have been
> sleeping the day they taught the difference between Brazing and Braising.
>
> I guess I will have to give my spell checker 100 lashes with a wet
> noodle to teach it how to tell the difference. Or maybe not, for all I
> have to do is to post it here, and YOU will correct all my spelling
> errors for me.
Nope, only those that will get you bad results in a search engine, and
then only if I am in the mood.
> That will be easier than blaming my spell checker. And my
> arm will not get so tired beating my spell checker with that wet noodle.
>
> I hope that next time that you will also do the grammer checking for me
> also.
>
> Thanks again for the spelling correction.
>
> Zap
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:00:06 +0000, zap wrote:
>>
>>
>>>DanG wrote:
>>>
>>>>Wrong stuff, in my opinion. You need to be using silver solder or
>>>>braze. They require higher heat, but the strength difference is
>>>>substantial. You need to scarf the joints to increase the bonded
>>>>surface.
>>>>
>>>>Here is decent article:
>>>>http://www.merseyturners.co.uk/learn_stuff2.htm
>>>>___________________________
>>>>Keep the whole world singing. . . .
>>>>DanG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Richard" <rtgreen8972@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1164917626.231526.269350@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades, but
>>>>>am
>>>>>having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up well
>>>>>and
>>>>>the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the new
>>>>>joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few secconds of
>>>>>cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any suggestions. I
>>>>>am
>>>>>using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Richard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Interesting, I would never have thought of doing it that way. Perhaps
>>>because many, many years ago, in using a large metal cutting band saw,
>>>we had a blade welder built into the band saw.
>>>
>>>It worked this way. We would square the but edges, then mount them
>>>into the welder. One end clamped on one side and the other end clamped
>>>on the other side, each to a set distance apart. Then we moved a lever
>>>which moved the two ends together and spring loaded them to force them
>>>together. Next we pushed a button and electric current passed through
>>>the blade between the clamps and caused the blade ends to go to white
>>>hot and the spring pushed them together to make the weld. There was an
>>>automatic cut off of current. Then after it cooled slightly, we pushed
>>>another button and it then passed an annealing current through the weld
>>>joint. Then we would be able to take it out of the welder and grind the
>>>weld flat on each side on an adjacent built in grinder. The came out
>>>perfect every time.
>>>
>>>I have no idea how much one of those blade welders cost today, and I am
>>>sure that I would not have enough use for one to warrant buying one. So
>>>I like your idea of braising, but would shy away from silver solder as
>>>being two weak for a but joint.
>>>
>>>Even so, I still see a need to anneal the joint after braising it, else
>>>the blade will be too brittle in that spot, and will bread again soon.
>>
>>
>> Look for information on "brazing", not "braising" and I think you'll
>> have more luck than you've had. You can find blade welders for as
>> little as 130 dollars however they don't automatically pass the
>> annealing current, you have to anneal with a torch, and of course no
>> built-in grinder.
>>
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 04:31:43
From: zap
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
Oh Woe is me, I guess I will just have to go on and give my spell
checker those 100 lashes with the wet noodle after all (grin)
Zap
J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:26:42 +0000, zap wrote:
>
>
>>Hi J. Clarke,
>>
>>Thanks for the spelling lesson. I needed that, since I never finished
>>grade school, they wouldn't let me past the 3rd grade so I quit when I
>>turned 16. And They didn't teach the difference between those two words
>>when I was in school 60 some years ago, then again I just may have been
>>sleeping the day they taught the difference between Brazing and Braising.
>>
>>I guess I will have to give my spell checker 100 lashes with a wet
>>noodle to teach it how to tell the difference. Or maybe not, for all I
>>have to do is to post it here, and YOU will correct all my spelling
>>errors for me.
>
>
> Nope, only those that will get you bad results in a search engine, and
> then only if I am in the mood.
>
>
>>That will be easier than blaming my spell checker. And my
>>arm will not get so tired beating my spell checker with that wet noodle.
>>
>>I hope that next time that you will also do the grammer checking for me
>>also.
>>
>>Thanks again for the spelling correction.
>>
>>Zap
>>
>>J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:00:06 +0000, zap wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>DanG wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Wrong stuff, in my opinion. You need to be using silver solder or
>>>>>braze. They require higher heat, but the strength difference is
>>>>>substantial. You need to scarf the joints to increase the bonded
>>>>>surface.
>>>>>
>>>>>Here is decent article:
>>>>>http://www.merseyturners.co.uk/learn_stuff2.htm
>>>>>___________________________
>>>>>Keep the whole world singing. . . .
>>>>>DanG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Richard" <rtgreen8972@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1164917626.231526.269350@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades, but
>>>>>>am
>>>>>>having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up well
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the new
>>>>>>joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few secconds of
>>>>>>cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any suggestions. I
>>>>>>am
>>>>>>using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Interesting, I would never have thought of doing it that way. Perhaps
>>>>because many, many years ago, in using a large metal cutting band saw,
>>>>we had a blade welder built into the band saw.
>>>>
>>>>It worked this way. We would square the but edges, then mount them
>>>>into the welder. One end clamped on one side and the other end clamped
>>>>on the other side, each to a set distance apart. Then we moved a lever
>>>>which moved the two ends together and spring loaded them to force them
>>>>together. Next we pushed a button and electric current passed through
>>>>the blade between the clamps and caused the blade ends to go to white
>>>>hot and the spring pushed them together to make the weld. There was an
>>>>automatic cut off of current. Then after it cooled slightly, we pushed
>>>>another button and it then passed an annealing current through the weld
>>>>joint. Then we would be able to take it out of the welder and grind the
>>>>weld flat on each side on an adjacent built in grinder. The came out
>>>>perfect every time.
>>>>
>>>>I have no idea how much one of those blade welders cost today, and I am
>>>>sure that I would not have enough use for one to warrant buying one. So
>>>>I like your idea of braising, but would shy away from silver solder as
>>>>being two weak for a but joint.
>>>>
>>>>Even so, I still see a need to anneal the joint after braising it, else
>>>>the blade will be too brittle in that spot, and will bread again soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>Look for information on "brazing", not "braising" and I think you'll
>>>have more luck than you've had. You can find blade welders for as
>>>little as 130 dollars however they don't automatically pass the
>>>annealing current, you have to anneal with a torch, and of course no
>>>built-in grinder.
>>>
>
>
|
| |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 00:00:21
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:00:06 +0000, zap wrote:
> DanG wrote:
>> Wrong stuff, in my opinion. You need to be using silver solder or
>> braze. They require higher heat, but the strength difference is
>> substantial. You need to scarf the joints to increase the bonded
>> surface.
>>
>> Here is decent article:
>> http://www.merseyturners.co.uk/learn_stuff2.htm
>> ___________________________
>> Keep the whole world singing. . . .
>> DanG
>>
>>
>> "Richard" <rtgreen8972@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:1164917626.231526.269350@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades,
>>>but am
>>>having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up
>>>well and
>>>the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the
>>>new
>>>joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few
>>>secconds of
>>>cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any
>>>suggestions. I am
>>>using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Richard
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> Interesting, I would never have thought of doing it that way. Perhaps
> because many, many years ago, in using a large metal cutting band saw,
> we had a blade welder built into the band saw.
>
> It worked this way. We would square the but edges, then mount them into
> the welder. One end clamped on one side and the other end clamped on the
> other side, each to a set distance apart. Then we moved a lever which
> moved the two ends together and spring loaded them to force them
> together. Next we pushed a button and electric current passed through
> the blade between the clamps and caused the blade ends to go to white
> hot and the spring pushed them together to make the weld. There was an
> automatic cut off of current. Then after it cooled slightly, we pushed
> another button and it then passed an annealing current through the weld
> joint. Then we would be able to take it out of the welder and grind the
> weld flat on each side on an adjacent built in grinder. The came out
> perfect every time.
>
> I have no idea how much one of those blade welders cost today, and I am
> sure that I would not have enough use for one to warrant buying one. So
> I like your idea of braising, but would shy away from silver solder as
> being two weak for a but joint.
>
> Even so, I still see a need to anneal the joint after braising it, else
> the blade will be too brittle in that spot, and will bread again soon.
Look for information on "brazing", not "braising" and I think you'll have
more luck than you've had. You can find blade welders for as little as
130 dollars however they don't automatically pass the annealing current,
you have to anneal with a torch, and of course no built-in grinder.
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
|
| | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 01:26:42
From: zap
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
Hi J. Clarke,
Thanks for the spelling lesson. I needed that, since I never finished
grade school, they wouldn't let me past the 3rd grade so I quit when I
turned 16. And They didn't teach the difference between those two words
when I was in school 60 some years ago, then again I just may have been
sleeping the day they taught the difference between Brazing and Braising.
I guess I will have to give my spell checker 100 lashes with a wet
noodle to teach it how to tell the difference. Or maybe not, for all I
have to do is to post it here, and YOU will correct all my spelling
errors for me. That will be easier than blaming my spell checker. And my
arm will not get so tired beating my spell checker with that wet noodle.
I hope that next time that you will also do the grammer checking for me
also.
Thanks again for the spelling correction.
Zap
J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:00:06 +0000, zap wrote:
>
>
>>DanG wrote:
>>
>>>Wrong stuff, in my opinion. You need to be using silver solder or
>>>braze. They require higher heat, but the strength difference is
>>>substantial. You need to scarf the joints to increase the bonded
>>>surface.
>>>
>>>Here is decent article:
>>>http://www.merseyturners.co.uk/learn_stuff2.htm
>>>___________________________
>>>Keep the whole world singing. . . .
>>>DanG
>>>
>>>
>>>"Richard" <rtgreen8972@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1164917626.231526.269350@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades,
>>>>but am
>>>>having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up
>>>>well and
>>>>the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the
>>>>new
>>>>joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few
>>>>secconds of
>>>>cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any
>>>>suggestions. I am
>>>>using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Richard
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Interesting, I would never have thought of doing it that way. Perhaps
>>because many, many years ago, in using a large metal cutting band saw,
>>we had a blade welder built into the band saw.
>>
>>It worked this way. We would square the but edges, then mount them into
>>the welder. One end clamped on one side and the other end clamped on the
>>other side, each to a set distance apart. Then we moved a lever which
>>moved the two ends together and spring loaded them to force them
>>together. Next we pushed a button and electric current passed through
>>the blade between the clamps and caused the blade ends to go to white
>>hot and the spring pushed them together to make the weld. There was an
>>automatic cut off of current. Then after it cooled slightly, we pushed
>>another button and it then passed an annealing current through the weld
>>joint. Then we would be able to take it out of the welder and grind the
>>weld flat on each side on an adjacent built in grinder. The came out
>>perfect every time.
>>
>>I have no idea how much one of those blade welders cost today, and I am
>>sure that I would not have enough use for one to warrant buying one. So
>>I like your idea of braising, but would shy away from silver solder as
>>being two weak for a but joint.
>>
>>Even so, I still see a need to anneal the joint after braising it, else
>>the blade will be too brittle in that spot, and will bread again soon.
>
>
> Look for information on "brazing", not "braising" and I think you'll have
> more luck than you've had. You can find blade welders for as little as
> 130 dollars however they don't automatically pass the annealing current,
> you have to anneal with a torch, and of course no built-in grinder.
>
|
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Date: 01 Dec 2006 17:10:49
From: LRod
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 01:26:42 GMT, zap <zap@vol.com > wrote:
>Thanks for the spelling lesson. I needed that, since I never finished
>grade school, they wouldn't let me past the 3rd grade so I quit when I
>turned 16.
At 16, you must have been the biggest 3rd grader in history.
>I hope that next time that you will also do the grammer checking for me
>also.
Grammar.
>Thanks again for the spelling correction.
Happy to help.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
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| | | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 01:48:58
From:
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
In article <mxLbh.5452$tM1.1390@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net >,
zap <zap@vol.com > wrote:
>Hi J. Clarke,
<...snipped... >
>Thanks again for the spelling correction.
>
<<...snipped... >>
>>
>> Look for information on "brazing", not "braising" and I think you'll have
>> more luck than you've had. You can find blade welders for as little as
>> 130 dollars however they don't automatically pass the annealing current,
>> you have to anneal with a torch, and of course no built-in grinder.
>>
That's not a spelling correction, both words are spelled correctly. JC
was just (politely IMO) telling you that were using the WRONG word.
I'll have to check it out, I bet if you DAGS on "braising bandsaw
blade" some of the returns will have to do with butchering techniques,
cuts of meat, and cooking. If you search of "brazing bandsaw blade" you
are much more likely to find the information you are looking for.
--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.
Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm@charm.net
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 14:37:08
From: zap
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
lwasserm@fellspt.charm.net wrote:
> In article <mxLbh.5452$tM1.1390@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> zap <zap@vol.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi J. Clarke,
>
> <...snipped...>
>
>>Thanks again for the spelling correction.
>>
>
> <<...snipped...>>
>
>>>Look for information on "brazing", not "braising" and I think you'll have
>>>more luck than you've had. You can find blade welders for as little as
>>>130 dollars however they don't automatically pass the annealing current,
>>>you have to anneal with a torch, and of course no built-in grinder.
>>>
>
>
> That's not a spelling correction, both words are spelled correctly. JC
> was just (politely IMO) telling you that were using the WRONG word.
> I'll have to check it out, I bet if you DAGS on "braising bandsaw
> blade" some of the returns will have to do with butchering techniques,
> cuts of meat, and cooking. If you search of "brazing bandsaw blade" you
> are much more likely to find the information you are looking for.
>
>
>
Hi,
Lets not get too serious about this. I believe that both JC and my self
were both writing with "Tongue in Cheek". That is just having a bit of
fun with each other. I did not take it serious, and I don't think JC did
either. I recognized from the beginning that it was all in fun. And I
hoped that everyone else did also. The fact is that I did enjoy JC's
emails.
Zap
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 18:00:33
From: J T
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
Thu, Nov 30, 2006, 12:13pm (EST-3) rtgreen8972@msn.com (Richard) doth
lament:
I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades, but am
having some trouble getting a good joint.<snip >
Apparently you're using the wrong recipe.
From WordNet (r) 2.0 (wn)
braising n : cooking slowly in fat in a closed pot with little moisture
JOAT
I am, therefore I think.
|
| |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 14:22:02
From: DanG
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
Wrong stuff, in my opinion. You need to be using silver solder or
braze. They require higher heat, but the strength difference is
substantial. You need to scarf the joints to increase the bonded
surface.
Here is decent article:
http://www.merseyturners.co.uk/learn_stuff2.htm
___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG
"Richard" <rtgreen8972@msn.com > wrote in message
news:1164917626.231526.269350@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades,
>but am
> having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up
> well and
> the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the
> new
> joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few
> secconds of
> cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any
> suggestions. I am
> using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
>
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 21:00:06
From: zap
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
DanG wrote:
> Wrong stuff, in my opinion. You need to be using silver solder or
> braze. They require higher heat, but the strength difference is
> substantial. You need to scarf the joints to increase the bonded
> surface.
>
> Here is decent article:
> http://www.merseyturners.co.uk/learn_stuff2.htm
> ___________________________
> Keep the whole world singing. . . .
> DanG
>
>
> "Richard" <rtgreen8972@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1164917626.231526.269350@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
>>I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades,
>>but am
>>having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up
>>well and
>>the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the
>>new
>>joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few
>>secconds of
>>cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any
>>suggestions. I am
>>using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Richard
>>
>
>
>
Interesting, I would never have thought of doing it that way. Perhaps
because many, many years ago, in using a large metal cutting band saw,
we had a blade welder built into the band saw.
It worked this way. We would square the but edges, then mount them into
the welder. One end clamped on one side and the other end clamped on the
other side, each to a set distance apart. Then we moved a lever which
moved the two ends together and spring loaded them to force them
together. Next we pushed a button and electric current passed through
the blade between the clamps and caused the blade ends to go to white
hot and the spring pushed them together to make the weld. There was an
automatic cut off of current. Then after it cooled slightly, we pushed
another button and it then passed an annealing current through the weld
joint. Then we would be able to take it out of the welder and grind the
weld flat on each side on an adjacent built in grinder. The came out
perfect every time.
I have no idea how much one of those blade welders cost today, and I am
sure that I would not have enough use for one to warrant buying one. So
I like your idea of braising, but would shy away from silver solder as
being two weak for a but joint.
Even so, I still see a need to anneal the joint after braising it, else
the blade will be too brittle in that spot, and will bread again soon.
Zap
|
| | |
Date: 30 Nov 2006 20:39:03
From: Lew Hodgett
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
"Richard" wrote:
> I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades,
but am
> having some trouble getting a good joint. Everything lines up
well and
> the solder seems to be well connected, but when I grind down the
new
> joint, it becomes very weak and breaks again after a few
secconds of
> cutting. I realize this is a vague question, but any
suggestions. I am
> using a small butane torch and metal working solder.
Way back when, DoAll provided a butt welder for blades as part of the saw.
Doubt a soft solder joint will work.
Lew
|
| |
Date: 01 Dec 2006 03:34:19
From: Andy Dingley
Subject: Re: Problem braising bandsaw blades
|
Richard wrote:
> I recently decided to learn how repair my broken bandsaw blades,
What's the solder and what's the bandsaw size?
IMHE, you aren't going to have much success using hard-soldered joints
on a bandsaw with small diameter wheels. On a bigger machine (18"
upwards), particularly for metal cutting rather than wood, they have
less flexing and might survive longer. If it's a small machine though,
you need those think butt welds.
As to solder, then silver solder is really the stuff to use (easiest
too and doesn't need any more ehat than a butane torch and a
firebrick). Soft solder really hasn't got the strength or the fatigue
life. Brazing tends to give a bigger lump.
> when I grind down the new joint,
So don't grind it down. If you're having to solder, then live with the
lump. Constant thickness really demands a strong resistance butt weld.
|
|
