Forstner bits.

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Date: 08 Oct 2006 21:12:25
From: Robatoy
Subject: Forstner bits.

I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.

The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
extra few bucks to go to HSS.
But what about carbide?
Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
Lee Valley has a nice set.
Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance

r

Date: 09 Oct 2006 00:08:24
From: Morris Dovey
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Robatoy (in 1160367145.629288.297120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com)
said:

Date: 10 Oct 2006 09:24:29
From: Chris Friesen
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Morris Dovey wrote:

> In my experience, Forstners tend to heat up pretty quickly. I've been
> excruciatingly careful with mine to avoid burning - and have been
> wishing that I'd bought a carbide-tipped set. (The HSS set I have came
> from Woodcraft Supply.)

I thought the whole point of HSS that it's air-quenched, and thus can't
be "burnt" because it hardens again as soon as it cools?

Chris

Date: 11 Oct 2006 02:20:10
From: CW
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

It is.

"Chris Friesen" <cbf123@mail.usask.ca > wrote in message
news:12inepdasu4hp72@corp.supernews.com...
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>
> I thought the whole point of HSS that it's air-quenched, and thus can't
> be "burnt" because it hardens again as soon as it cools?
>
> Chris

Date: 09 Oct 2006 04:21:11
From: Lew Hodgett
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Robatoy wrote:
> I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
> extra few bucks to go to HSS.
> But what about carbide?
> Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
> Lee Valley has a nice set.
> Any other suggestions?

I have a set of Freud carbide forstner bits.

I wouldn't leave home without them.

SFWIW, the set comes with a 1-3/8 for 35mm hinges, but no 7/8 which I
added.

Use HHS brad points below 1/2" except for the 1/4 & 3/8 which are Freud.

If you want very good brad point drills, find a supplier to the die
cutting industry such as gasket houses.

My landlord is a gasket maker & has some very neat brad point drills.

Lew

Date: 09 Oct 2006 09:29:20
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Bruce Barnett wrote:
> one thing to be aware of with the cheapo ones is that
> they can't cut well unless you have a starter hole in the middle.
>
> The good ones can cut without a center support.

In my experience with the HF set, they cut fine without a center hole
(using a drill press). Maybe I just got lucky and have a particularly
good cheap set, but I've never needed a pilot hole when using them in
my drill press.
YMMV
Andy

Date: 09 Oct 2006 20:30:26
From: Vic Baron
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

"Andy" <aenewhouse@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1160411360.459619.12770@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bruce Barnett wrote:
>> one thing to be aware of with the cheapo ones is that
>> they can't cut well unless you have a starter hole in the middle.
>>
>> The good ones can cut without a center support.
>
>
> In my experience with the HF set, they cut fine without a center hole
> (using a drill press). Maybe I just got lucky and have a particularly
> good cheap set, but I've never needed a pilot hole when using them in
> my drill press.
> YMMV
> Andy
>

I also have a cheapo from HF - absolutely no problem w/o a center hole in
pine, oak, mahogany, walnut or hard maple. Bottom line - they work
perfectly fine.

V

Date: 09 Oct 2006 07:55:46
From: Teamcasa
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

"Robatoy" <design@topworks.ca > wrote in message
news:1160367145.629288.297120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
> extra few bucks to go to HSS.
> But what about carbide?
> Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
> Lee Valley has a nice set.
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> r
>
Rob, Nice to see you back!
To me, its all about what and how often I need a particular size and what
I'm drilling. I have several carbide forstners and several HSS (Freud) and
a whole slew of HCS for the occasional hole. I don't know the name of the
HCS set as they are quite old.

As you said you only needed a few flat bottom holes, If it good hardwood,
get a good HSS bit for the size, If its into particle board, get the
specific bit in carbide.

Dave

Date: 09 Oct 2006 14:32:33
From: Bruce Barnett
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

"Robatoy" <design@topworks.ca > writes:

> I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
> extra few bucks to go to HSS.

one thing to be aware of with the cheapo ones is that
they can't cut well unless you have a starter hole in the middle.

The good ones can cut without a center support.

--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 13:45:55
From: Prometheus
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

On Mon, 9 2006 14:32:33 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett
<spamhater113+U061009103203@grymoire.com > wrote:

>"Robatoy" <design@topworks.ca> writes:
>
>> I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>>
>> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
>> extra few bucks to go to HSS.
>
>
>one thing to be aware of with the cheapo ones is that
>they can't cut well unless you have a starter hole in the middle.
>
>The good ones can cut without a center support.

Hmm. Mine seem to be fine, though I don't know about the HF ones.
Though I never used anything from them- the prices are so low, I get
visions of Big Lots.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 14:53:13
From: Bruce Barnett
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

"Andy" <aenewhouse@gmail.com > writes:

> Bruce Barnett wrote:
>> one thing to be aware of with the cheapo ones is that
>> they can't cut well unless you have a starter hole in the middle.
>>
>> The good ones can cut without a center support.
>
>
> In my experience with the HF set, they cut fine without a center hole
> (using a drill press).

Heck, you can put an adjustable "wing" hole saw in a drillpress and
get it to cut. But a good Forstner bit will work in a handheld drill,
even when there is no center hole. (It does need to get a small bite first.)

The ones I'm talking about have a circular cutting edge on the rim,
like shown here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/articles/bit4.jpg

I bought a cheapo set on sale, and it doesn't have the cutting
rim. Instead it has a spur on the edge, like the Stanley PowerBore
bits. I HAVE to use the cheapos in a drillpress when I can't use a
center guide. Otherwise they walk all over the place.

The cheap ones I have are easier to sharpen, like the PowerBore bits.
Sharpening the rim-type is tricky.

--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.

Date:
From:
Subject:

Date: 09 Oct 2006 06:00:50
From: Andy
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Dennis wrote:
> If you keep your eye on all the HF catalogs you receive... you can find
> their 7 piece forstner set in Titanium for $7.95 and once in a while I find
> them for $3.99... yes I did say $3.99. I usually buy 3 or four sets at that
> price and after a few holes, I sell them at my next garage sale and open up
> a new box!

I'll second that. I got a cheapo set from HF a few years ago, planning
to replace them as soon as they wore out. I've been using them
semi-regularly since then, and have yet to wear them out! I did get
some of the HSS forstners from LV in my more commonly used sizes, and
they do cut cleaner and spin truer, but I find I'm more worried about
burning them, just because each bit cost more than my whole HF set.
When I need a really smooth or precise hole, I look for the LV bits,
but if I'm drilling through melamine-coated chipboard or something that
would tend to dull the bits, or if I just need a quick deepish hole for
doweling or countersinking or something, the HF bits are more than
adequate. Mine aren't even the gold-colored TiN. Maybe $5 for the
7-piece set IIRC?
Hope this helps,
Andy

Date: 09 Oct 2006 12:41:33
From: Leon
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 03:54:34
From: Prometheus
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

On 8 2006 21:12:25 -0700, "Robatoy" <design@topworks.ca > wrote:

>I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
>The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
>extra few bucks to go to HSS.
>But what about carbide?
>Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
>Lee Valley has a nice set.
>Any other suggestions?

In the interest of full disclosure, I have only used the set I own, so
this is not a compare/contrast endorsement.

I've got a $20 7-pc set of "Columbian" brand Forsner bits, and they've
been going strong for about three years. They see a fair amount of
use, and most of the work I do is in hard maple, so I wouldn't
hesitate to buy them again. The cuts are smooth and clean, and they
don't seem to be dulling at all, so I don't see how spending more $$$
would be an improvement. IIRC, they are HSS with a TiN coating, but
they could be carbide- it's been a while since I threw the info that
came with them away.

A few notes on carbide in general, though- while it's very hard, and
doesn't dull easily, you're not going to be able to touch it up with
anything short of a diamond hone. It is also a grained material-
which means that it is tough in one direction, but fairly brittle in
the perpendicular direction. I'm sure they work out the best grain
direction when they manufacture the bits, but you had better be sure
your drill press is pretty steady- I know that when using carbide
taps, even the slightest side-to-side movement can snap even a fairly
stout tap very easily. Don't know about the forsner bits, but it's
something to consider.

For the cost of a high-end set, I think I'd go with the HSS, so that I
had the option to touch them up with a file if they get dull. But
then again, I'm awfully happy with the cheap set. They're perfectly
servicable, and when they do eventually wear out, $20 won't put me in
the poorhouse to replace them.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 06:44:12
From: Dennis
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

If you keep your eye on all the HF catalogs you receive... you can find
their 7 piece forstner set in Titanium for $7.95 and once in a while I find
them for $3.99... yes I did say $3.99. I usually buy 3 or four sets at that
price and after a few holes, I sell them at my next garage sale and open up
a new box!

Dennis Slabaugh
Hobbyist Wood Worker
www.woodworkinghobby.com

"Prometheus" <noneofyer@business.org > wrote in message
news:9q2ki2hv3tjd5ovf1mmkcenrictqrverqv@4ax.com...
> On 8 2006 21:12:25 -0700, "Robatoy" <design@topworks.ca> wrote:
>
>>I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>>
>>The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
>>extra few bucks to go to HSS.
>>But what about carbide?
>>Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
>>Lee Valley has a nice set.
>>Any other suggestions?
>
> In the interest of full disclosure, I have only used the set I own, so
> this is not a compare/contrast endorsement.
>
> I've got a $20 7-pc set of "Columbian" brand Forsner bits, and they've
> been going strong for about three years. They see a fair amount of
> use, and most of the work I do is in hard maple, so I wouldn't
> hesitate to buy them again. The cuts are smooth and clean, and they
> don't seem to be dulling at all, so I don't see how spending more $$$
> would be an improvement. IIRC, they are HSS with a TiN coating, but
> they could be carbide- it's been a while since I threw the info that
> came with them away.
>
> A few notes on carbide in general, though- while it's very hard, and
> doesn't dull easily, you're not going to be able to touch it up with
> anything short of a diamond hone. It is also a grained material-
> which means that it is tough in one direction, but fairly brittle in
> the perpendicular direction. I'm sure they work out the best grain
> direction when they manufacture the bits, but you had better be sure
> your drill press is pretty steady- I know that when using carbide
> taps, even the slightest side-to-side movement can snap even a fairly
> stout tap very easily. Don't know about the forsner bits, but it's
> something to consider.
>
> For the cost of a high-end set, I think I'd go with the HSS, so that I
> had the option to touch them up with a file if they get dull. But
> then again, I'm awfully happy with the cheap set. They're perfectly
> servicable, and when they do eventually wear out, $20 won't put me in
> the poorhouse to replace them.

Date: 10 Oct 2006 03:15:29
From: Tom Gardner
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Date: 09 Oct 2006 19:48:26
From: Robatoy
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

On 9, 5:32 pm, "Rick M"
<Sawdust_Cent...@thereisnocabel.triad.rr.com > wrote:
> Hey Rob,

Hiya Rick!
>
> Buy GOOD bits, and _only_ the ones you need. The urge to get the "free" box
> with the set is strong ... resist it you must!

I'm checking off the ones I want from the LeeValley catalogue...HSS. I
have the important one (35 mm) in carbide already. Paid stupid money
for it out of the Hafele catalogue. Mind you, it has drilled thousands
of hinge-cups in justabout every kind of material and is still just
fine.
>
>
> BTW, how's your Sis?

So kind of you to ask. She had some setbacks but battled her way
through. Then she had a 7 hour operation on her neck after which there
has been sufficient improvement for her to go home next Thursday. She's
not walking yet but has again taken up her first love; painting. The
improvements over the last 3 weeks has been nothing short of
remarkable. She buzzes around in her chair now and ramps have been
built around the house so she'll be able to feed herself, watch her new
flatscreen and she will be on-line soon.
We are all very encouraged. Her spirits are very high.

r

Date: 09 Oct 2006 21:32:41
From: Rick M
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Hey Rob,

Buy GOOD bits, and _only_ the ones you need. The urge to get the "free" box
with the set is strong ... resist it you must!

We did just that a few years back during a machine-building frenzy; the GOOD
bits did their job, and are still sharp, but are only taking up a fraction
of the space the others would occupy had they been purchased. Not to
mention, the few needed good bits were less than the "inexpensive" sets.

Regards,

Rick

BTW, how's your Sis?

"Robatoy" wrote
> I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
> extra few bucks to go to HSS.
> But what about carbide?
> Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
> Lee Valley has a nice set.
> Any other suggestions?

Date: 09 Oct 2006 20:48:39
From: Nova
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

Robatoy wrote:

> I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
> extra few bucks to go to HSS.
> But what about carbide?
> Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
> Lee Valley has a nice set.
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> r
>

Unless you'll be doing production work with them I don't think I'd spend
the extra money for carbide. I'd opt for quality HSS. Fisch bits are
an excellent choice. See:

http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=10&q=fisch+forstner+bits+group%3Arec.woodworking&safe=off&qt_s=Search

and

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11383

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
novasys@verizon.net

Date: 12 Oct 2006 08:55:46
From: J. Clarke
Subject: Re: Forstner bits.

"Robatoy" <design@topworks.ca > wrote in message
news:1160367145.629288.297120@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>I am in need of a few sizes of flat-bottomed holes.
>
> The difference between HCS and HSS is well established, and worth the
> extra few bucks to go to HSS.
> But what about carbide?
> Any sets you guys like? ( 1/4 - 1" in 1/8 increments would be fine.)
> Lee Valley has a nice set.
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

The big benefit of carbide is its temperature resistance and long wear. Big
downsides are that it's relatively difficult to sharpen, doesn't take as
fine an edge as steel, and is relatively brittle.

Unless I knew in advance that I was going to be doing high volume or working
wth some of the hard and abrasive exotics I'd go with HSS.

Personally I've got an old Chinese-made carbon steel set that has drilled
everything I've thrown at it and never given me a problem, but I almost
always use the drill press and adhere to the speeds marked inside the top of
the box lid--they work fine in the hand-held drill but generally if I need
Forstner precision I want the precise positioning I can get with the drill
press.